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stevenjohnson

Doh!

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Thu, Aug 24, 2006 2:56 PM)

Minuteman

Holy crap... I can't believe I didn't notice those panel snippets over all these years! But yes, you are quite right. Good eye.

I would be tempted to go back and try to incorportate 'em, but they are so tiny that I think it would just detract from things...

I kinda surprised no one has asked about my omission of 3.2.6... I assumed it was just a close-up of Bernie viewing 3.2.5 and not a "real" panel, so I left it out...

Re: the different covers, I didn't realize that the situation in the UK was different!

CB15 II

Pieces Of Freight...er

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Setting up alternate identities and buying blonde hair dye just in case everything goes to shit

Posts: 1599

(Thu, Aug 24, 2006 3:43 PM)

Feeling a bit disgruntled about other Watchmen sites

At 3.2.4, we see the complete page in it's entirety, including the uppermost panel featuring The Mariner stood in the surf looking skyward, a close-up of which then providing us with 3.2.5.

From the complete page at 3.2.4, we see that the very next frame as it appears in Marooned is The Mariner with his face buried in his hands. As there is no repitition of his full face on the page, 3.2.6 must therefore be a zoom of the image at 3.2.5, inserted for dramatic effect in order to emphasise the relevance of Bernie Newsvendor's "He's a survivor." comment (ironic, of course, in that he won't be come the conclusion... inna final analysis.)

Yeah, I guessed this was the reason you left it out of The Reconstruction!

I wonder if in order to achieve this close-up, Gibbons simply blew up the existing panel that he'd drawn at 3.2.5, or if he in fact meticulously redrew it from scratch?

If it's a straight copy lifted from an existing panel, then this becomes one of a number of examples of the technique being used in WATCHMEN; the other instances I can recall involving such obvious duplication are the oft-repeated images of Blake receiving his beating and being thrown to his death, Jon's watch repairing hand, and the dog with it's head split in half. Possibly also included in this will be the repeated image of Walter sat in his cell at 8.6.6-9 (only his visitors on the other side of the bars changing from panel to panel.)
I'd read somewhere that the repeated corresponding images of Dr Manhattan that appear at 12.11.3 and again at 12.12.3, and also 12.11.4 and 12.12.4, were individually drawn for each of their seperate panels (borne out by close scrutiny of the images and their hatching detail.)

Gosh, how refreshing!
A discussion of the finer points of WATCHMEN in print, and not revolving around the proposed movie for a change!

"Enough is enough! I've had it with these motherfuckin' snakes on this motherfuckin' plane!" ~ Glenn Miller

CB15 II

More Artistic Approval...

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Setting up alternate identities and buying blonde hair dye just in case everything goes to shit

Posts: 1599

(Sat, Aug 26, 2006 11:35 AM)

Feeling a bit disgruntled about other Watchmen sites

Steve Johnson's Black Freighter remix is wonderful.

Best

-- Dave

Yeah... Mr G does somewhat approve, doesn't he?

Way to shoot that hoop, Steven.

stevenjohnson

Re: More Artistic Approval...

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Mon, Aug 28, 2006 4:55 PM)

Minuteman

Urr? Where did you see that quote? (Just got back to email after being hold up in caves & wilderness for two days...)

ManOWar

Re: Artsy Fartsy

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Wondering how much time Vynson spends coming up with these stupid rankings.

Posts: 555

(Mon, Aug 28, 2006 6:13 PM)

Your predicament has been noticed and the situation is being attended to.

Steve,

Check out THE GREAT RORSCHACH CASTING EXPERIMENT thread. CB's got Dave's number (or, rather, email). Kudos, my man...

"There's no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with 'in' and emphasize it. Get me a jury and show me how you can say 'In July' and I'll go down on you." -Orson Welles

CB15 II

Freighter Cater Debater

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Setting up alternate identities and buying blonde hair dye just in case everything goes to shit

Posts: 1599

(Mon, Sep 25, 2006 9:36 PM)

Feeling a bit disgruntled about other Watchmen sites

Mr Johnson, as an undisputed afficionado on the subject, your views please:

How would you... how could you... incorporate any semblance of the TOTBF strand into a WATCHMEN movie?

They Who Hath Understanding generally accept that this would be THE major omission from a cinematic adaptation - Vyn succeeded in referencing Marooned in his own worthy screenplay effort... any advance on that?

What are your general thoughts on the whole WATCHMEN: THE MOTION PICTURE endeavour... and are they in any way influenced by the treatment (or lack thereof) that would be meted out to our pirate chums?

Cheers.

stevenjohnson

Re: Freighter Cater Debater

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Mon, Sep 25, 2006 9:48 PM)

Minuteman

> How would you... how could you...
> incorporate any semblance of the TOTBF
> strand into a WATCHMEN movie?

Well, as I think I said in my commentary, I think Watchmen is just fine like it is, and trying to make a movie would probably just botch it. The only way I can see it having a hope of not being a complete travesty would be to make it a 12-part series on HBO or a similar channel, with a Sopranos-ish approach.

That said, even that would probably fail from an artistic basis, but in such a framework I can see one possible way of fitting in TOTBF... imagine that as Chapter 3 begins, and Bernie (Bernard? I forget) starts reading the comic, we zoom from live action into the comic (which retains the original artwork, NOT live-action)... and have a Ken-Burns-ish approach, with the panels being panned slowly, while a narrator does voiceover of the TOTBF text. (I'm thinking Tom Waits would be the perfect voice here.)

You'd still have to lose the interplay between the "real" storyline and the pirate comic, I think (ie, you wouldn't want to intermix the dialog)... but an approach like this might let you mix the two storylines in a way analogous to the original comic (ie, an inner story that comments on the outer story).

But yeah, if you had to lose something from the comic, TOTBF is probably the first thing to go.

I haven't really followed the screenplay discussions because, well, frankly I'm skeptical that it's worth doing, as I said, so I don't know about Vyn's effort that references Marooned, and thus can't comment on it.

(Re: the casting thread... the only clear casting idea I've ever had was that a Reservoir Dogs-era Harvey Keitel would be the perfect person to play The Comedian...)

Vynson

Signifyin' for somethin'

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Still thinks Gloria Long was behind it all

Posts: 907

(Tue, Sep 26, 2006 4:16 PM)

The first thing I jettisoned was the Black Freighter. It's the obvious first cut.

Wrong.

Watchmen is special not so much because of the story as because of the way the story is told and the unique experience this affords.

Trimming off the layers of meaning that build that experience is more dangerous than lopping off entire story sequences.

And so I put it back, and I think it works.

I see the Black Freighter as a comic book where we see the kid reading and then see closeups of some of the panels using Gibbons' actual artwork... all being read by Bernard. I think this kid has a unique voice in the book and that would translate well. I like the idea of this kid, nowhere to go after school, settling against the warmth of a spark hydrant to read pirate comics. A kid on the edge. A kid at risk. He obviously doesn't have many friends and prefers to read, but he's not the kind of geek who bags and boards every issue. He rolls it up and puts it in his back pocket (yay!). He smokes his crooked little cigars and tries to get these stories which, as we see from Shea's literary prestige, are more intellectual than your average comic.

This kid is a wonderful character that the newsvendor finds to be an annoyance at first... and comes to care about. I think the right actor could really provide an excellent voice over in these segments that could make this layer of the movie truly profound. I'd hate to see an adult read the Freighter captions. It should be this kid... this wonderful, smart, afraid kid, who talks a bit tough, but then reads with a wonderful, involved voice trying to understand... and help us understand.

stevenjohnson

Voice

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Tue, Sep 26, 2006 4:22 PM)

Minuteman

> I'd hate to see an adult read the Freighter captions.
> It should be this kid...

We have a similar vision, I see... except on this point :-)

I agree, except that I see it as the kid's vision of the Mariner's voice. Who definitely isn't a kid.

I still vote for Tom Waits :-)

ManOWar

Re: Voice

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Wondering how much time Vynson spends coming up with these stupid rankings.

Posts: 555

(Tue, Sep 26, 2006 10:21 PM)

Your predicament has been noticed and the situation is being attended to.

I am with Steve on this one. I'd rather hear an adult voice narrate the Black Freighter sequence. For me, if the Black Freighter sequence is used somehow, someway, we'll have to have a definitive narrative voice. If we hear young Bernard's voice, I immediately go to that understanding that this is his story somehow. I rather see the Black Freighter and it's undercurrent effect being revealed to Bernard and not reflecting his condition or viewpoint.

The way I see it: A narrative using an actor's voiceover who is not already cast in a role in Watchmen.

-or-

A narrative using the actor's voice who plays Adrian Veidt. Much of the Black Freighter is a reflection on Veidt's experience and viewpoint (he just barely references this in his last exchange with Jon, saying that a reoccurring dream in which he is "swimming towards a...", then it ends- just like the last frame of the Black Freighter). Just a thought; I personally think it would be a nice tie-in if it fits into the context of whatever screenplay might be used.

"There's no known way of saying an English sentence in which you begin a sentence with 'in' and emphasize it. Get me a jury and show me how you can say 'In July' and I'll go down on you." -Orson Welles

Eroom Nala

Marooned Ballooned?

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Cooped up in OwlShip with Rorschach wishing like hell that he would apply some of the Nostalgia he stole from me

Posts: 99

(Sat, Dec 6, 2008 4:36 AM)

*VIVARIUM GOLD NECRO POST ALERT!*

stevenjohnson quoted someplace absolutely bloody yonks ago now:
"Dave Gibbons did spectacular work and I can't even begin to guess what he'd put in the 'missing' panels. Maybe someone can commission him to finish them? I think the readers' imaginations will do a far better job of filling in those blanks than I ever could."

Well, it looks like someone (no prizes fer awesomely guessin' who) has gone and done that very thing... for one page at least:

I count four new previously unseen panels of artwork there. One presumes produced by one or even both of the original arty type creators, based upon their previously publicised efforts for the Hollywood hype machine (calendar anyone? A fucking mug?)

If you are still lurking hereabouts SJ, I'd be interested to hear whether or not Mr G has sent you any complimentary advance copies of said prop artwork in light of the obvious passion you so admirably demonstrated for his original salty seadog sketches and the recognition you received from the very man himself back when Marooned: The Reconstruction first surfaced.

Wonder if us mere comic buying mortals will ever get our hands on Sales of the Zack Freighter sometime... actually printed in real ink on real wood pulp paper would be nice instead of just some fucking no doubt awesomely cool DVD extra. Avast, ye scurvy dogs! Arrrrrr!

Will

Sorry, Alan

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Posts: 1549

(Sun, Dec 7, 2008 1:29 AM)

"I am Will, king of kings, look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

I was wondering the same thing. Principles aside, I would absolutely buy that were it to be released.

Will

Really, Alan, I'm Sorry

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Posts: 1549

(Fri, Jan 23, 2009 5:29 PM)

"I am Will, king of kings, look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair!"

I'm excited about something else regarding the Black Freighter (in addition to my post above from last month) which I will probably purchase:

The animated DVD of the Black Freighter.

I'm thinking that this might be the only pure, uncompromised aspect of this adaptation. The whole idea behind and content of this aspect has probably flown completely under the money-and-big-picture-centric radars of those in charge at WB, who probably see the entire bonus DVD as merely a quick $15 add-on and, as such, might still stand a chance of being truly "awesome."

Okay. I've found something to be excited about regarding the adaptation. Cool.

stevenjohnson

[-]

Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Fri, Jan 23, 2009 7:03 PM)

Minuteman

Eroom Nala wrote:

If you are still lurking hereabouts SJ, I'd be interested to hear whether or not Mr G has sent you any complimentary advance copies of said prop artwork in light of the obvious passion you so admirably demonstrated for his original salty seadog sketches and the recognition you received from the very man himself back when Marooned: The Reconstruction first surfaced.

Sorry for delayed response -- apparently my attempt at monitoring this board via RSS feed quietly failed (anyone know how to do that reliably?)

Anyway, cool! Where did you see that image?

No, Mr. G has not sent me any such advance copy of a reconstruction (though I would obviously love to have such a copy). It would be cool if they actually printed a run of said reconstruction as a movie promotional item (assuming such a thing exists). But it's all speculation on my part.

stevenjohnson

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:16 PM)

Minuteman

Apparently the Black Freighter animated version is going to be released on DVD as a standalone item, not as a Watchmen-DVD-bonus:

http://blog.wired.com/und...9/02/watchmens-black.html

The "Tales of the Black Freighter" subplot director Zack Snyder cut from the upcoming Watchmen movie will resurface as its own animated DVD adventure March 24.

Including the voice of 300's Gerard Butler, "The Black Freighter" tells of a man's ill-fated attempt to save his family from a ghostly pirate ship.

The DVD will also feature a re-creation of Watchmen's "Under the Hood," a fictional, autobiographical film written by the story's original Nite Owl, Hollis Mason.

Soppdrake

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KnotTop

Posts: 85

(Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:14 PM)

Hiding In Moloch's Fridge

I think the idea is to release it as a stand-alone for the time being. (Along with "Under the Hood"). Then, add it to a "director's cut" of the movie including all the knobs and whistles.

I guess on BluRay the content will probably all fit on one disc. For the blue-laser challenged, we'll have to make do with a set of DVDs.

stevenjohnson

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Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:59 PM)

Minuteman

A few stills from the TOTBF DVD...

http://www.joblo.com/black-freighter-pics

Art style clearly isn't slavish to the original, but looks like it might work. We'll see.

I like the newsstand poster, though!

ManOWar

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Wondering how much time Vynson spends coming up with these stupid rankings.

Posts: 555

(Sat, Feb 7, 2009 3:45 AM)

Your predicament has been noticed and the situation is being attended to.

The artwork looks familiar. Any information on the company/team behind it?

stevenjohnson

[-]

Dining at Rafael's

Posts: 26

(Sat, Feb 7, 2009 5:14 AM)

Minuteman

ManOWar wrote:
The artwork looks familiar. Any information on the company/team behind it?

http://bake.org/currentre...blackfreighter/index.html

ManOWar

[-]

Wondering how much time Vynson spends coming up with these stupid rankings.

Posts: 555

(Sat, Feb 7, 2009 9:36 PM)

Your predicament has been noticed and the situation is being attended to.

Cool, thanks Steve!

It looks like much of their resume lies in visual effects and not so much animation. Interesting look, though. Reminds me of "Boondocks" on Adult Swim and other shows of that ilk.

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